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A little middle east history
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cswho



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
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Location: Calif


 PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:40 am    Post subject: A little middle east history Reply with quote Back to top

Wars/politics...same difference. I thought it would be good, for those who, admittedly, don't follow world news to have a synopsis of the more recent history of the Israli/Lebanon war which ignited late last week.


Hezbollah Terrorist Sleeper Cell Suspected in New York City
By Jim Kouri, CPP, 7/16/2006 11:02:08 AM

While many U.S. government officials are deeply concerned over Iran?s nuclear program, according to recent reports, investigations by Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Justice Department revealed last May that the Lebanon-based terrorist group Hezbollah may be plotting attacks. These attacks may be launched by their sleeper cells in New York and several other US cities.

According to the Canadian Security Intelligence Service and the Jewish organization B'nai B'rith, Hezbollah's largest headquarters outside of the Middle East is located in Toronto.



Hezbollah, or God's Party, grew out of the Lebanese civil war in the early 1980s and quickly became the region's leading radical Islamic movement. Their primary goal was to drive Israeli and American troops out of Lebanon.

For many years, Hezbollah was synonymous with terror, suicide bombings and kidnappings. In 1983, militants who went on to join Hezbollah's ranks carried out a suicide bombing attack that killed 241 US marines in Beirut, which lead to President Ronald Reagan's withdrawal order for all US military peacekeepers.

In May 2000 # due to the success of the party's military arm # one of its main aims was achieved. Israel's military was forced to end almost 20 years of occupation in southern Labanon. Hezbollah now serves as an inspiration to Palestinian factions fighting to liberate more territory. The party has embraced the Palestinian cause and has said publicly that it is ready to open a second front against Israel in support of the intifada.

Hezbollah's political rhetoric's central theme is the total annihilation of the state of Israel. Its definition of Israeli occupation has also encompassed the idea that the whole of Palestine is occupied Muslim land and it has argued that Israel has no right to exist. Hezbollah's spiritual head Sheikh Fadlallah is close to Iranian government and is believed responsible for the vitriolic speeches of the Iranian president.

Hezbollah is funded, armed and trained by the Iranians and given free reign by Syria's ruling Ba'athist Party. Its international network, according to terrorism analysts, is believed to include at least 15,000 operatives in cells in the US, Canada, Argentina, Paraguay, Brazil, most of Western Europe, Indonesia, Malaysia, and throughout Africa. Western intelligence sources estimate Hezbollah's annual budget to be approximately $400 million, including almost $100 million annually from Iran.

Other sources of funding include Syria, charitable organizations, individual donations, legitimate business, and illegitimate businesses such as illegal arms trading, cigarette smuggling, currency counterfeiting, credit card fraud, theft, operating illegal telephone exchanges, and drug trafficking. Recently two men were convicted of running a criminal operation that helped to fund Hezbollah.

Hezbollah's growing international terrorist activity has raised concerns that the terrorist group may be emerging as a more serious threat than previously considered. Its global terrorist reach has serious policy implications for Democratic countries. However, there are international organizations that continue to insist that Hezbollah is a legitimate political party in Lebanon and that it does not warrant the designation of "terrorist group."

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sojourner



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 PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, recent history. But we have to go a little further back to get at the root cause of the present conflict in that region.

There is a reason. It is the elephant in the room.
 
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cswho



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
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 PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Oh THAT. Wink

Well, that's simple. Somebody's got something that somebody else wants. It's been that since the beginning of mankind.

cindy

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sojourner



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 PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Let's tell everyone, for instance, about the 400 Palestinian villages that were wiped out when Israel was created in 1948 as a place to put all the European jewish victims. Why was that fair, and how could it be? The only rationalization for Israel's existence in that area is that those people could be pushed around and bullied into accepting them. Of course the jewish people deserve a place to live, but my question is.....why there? Why didn't other nations take them in? Of course, the answer to that question according to some jews is that God guaranteed them THAT PARTICULAR LAND in a deal made with Abraham....in the Bible. So essentially, we are now seeing the results of policy built directly on the Holy Books of the jews and the christians.

Where does that leave muslims? Confused
 
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Uriah



Joined: 13 Jul 2005
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 PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Fair?

When has fairness ever mattered to mankind?

Throughout the course of human history societies have been in constant conflict for resources, territory, and ideological power. Populations are always trying to displace one another, whether it be by out breeding, absorbtion, or out right killing.

People would like to look at what is going on in the Middle East and fit it nicely into their Judeo-Christian ideology and eschatological view, when in fact it is just more of the same. It is what we have always done.

By painting it in the colors of the Christian narrative it allows people to ignore the fact that what they are really looking at is the ugly face of our species.


So what is fair? One side will win eventually and the other will cease to exist. Same old, same old if you ask me.

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sojourner



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 PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

That is a cynical outlook there, Uriah. What is fair? Justice is fair. Just because it is not easy to attain is no reason to stop trying. I get so tired of hearing people say "Oh, they've been fighting over there forever! It's just the way they are!". I don't believe that. People do not fight and kill without a reason. It might not be a GOOD reason to observers, but it's a reason, nonetheless, and needs to be addressed.
 
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Uriah



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 PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I disagree, one person's justice in another's tyranny. Fairness is creation of humanity's altruistic intent, it does not exist in nature.

And they are addressing the reason, that's what the fighting is for.

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Caren



Joined: 13 Dec 2004
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Location: on a rock flying 67,000 miles an hour through space...


 PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Israel is the smallest country in the world; it?s the size of New Jersey. Israel has had nukes before most countries (except US and Russia) and has shown tremendous restraint in using them. The history of this country being taken over is beyond what most countries can imagine occurring on their soil?

http://www.science.co.il/Israel-history.asp

The Palestinians have huge countries surrounding her to live in, but they want this too. I love Israel, have lived there, and have friends there. The Israeli?s are a very loving people, I loved talking with the young men and women soldiers strolling the streets with machine guns, they want peace, but will go to whatever extent necessary to protect their land. This is the best trained military in the world, and as you know every citizen is a soldier and prepared to fight if need be?

Rotating 11:11 C

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cswho



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
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 PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Well Caren, it isn't the Smallest Countries in the World
RankCountry Total Area (sq km)
1 Vatican 0.44
2 Monaco 1.95
3 Nauru 21
4 Tuvalu 26
5 San Marino 61.2
6 Liechtenstein 160
7 Saint Kitts and Nevis 261
8 Maldives 300
9 Malta 316
10 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 389
11 Barbados 430
12 Antigua and Barbuda 442
13 Seychelles 455
14 Andorra 468
15 Bahrain 620
15 Saint Lucia 620
17 Singapore 647.5
18 Micronesia 702
19 Kiribati 717
20 Tonga 748

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Q



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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 PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

No one OWNs any soil haha and never can and thats the cause, its all about fear and ownership, the sooner humanity understand it can never own ANYTHING then it may well be able to look at its outdated belief systems, change what isn't working and move on.

Q

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Uriah



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 PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

^good idea, but it'll never happen. All animals claim territory, humans are no different.
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michael1111



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 PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

true...but maybe as animals we should see the entire planet as one big patch of land...then rule it all.

i agree...let's claim our territory. Smile


michael Smile
 
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sojourner



Joined: 04 May 2006
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 PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Caren wrote:
Israel is the smallest country in the world; it?s the size of New Jersey. Israel has had nukes before most countries (except US and Russia) and has shown tremendous restraint in using them. The history of this country being taken over is beyond what most countries can imagine occurring on their soil?

http://www.science.co.il/Israel-history.asp

The Palestinians have huge countries surrounding her to live in, but they want this too. I love Israel, have lived there, and have friends there. The Israeli?s are a very loving people, I loved talking with the young men and women soldiers strolling the streets with machine guns, they want peace, but will go to whatever extent necessary to protect their land. This is the "best trained military in the world, and as you know every citizen is a soldier and prepared to fight if need be?

Rotating 11:11 C


"The Israeli's are a very loving people....the young men and women soldiers strolling the streets with machine guns, they want peace, but will go to whatever extent necessary to protect their land."

Yeah, they are demonstrating right now how "loving" they are, and how badly they want peace. And why can't you grant the Palestinians that same right to protect THEIR land, where THEY lived before Europe and the United States decided to put the Israelis where the Palestinians already WERE. Why was that done? I guess Europe and the United States didn't want them. At any rate, I'd like to know where the Israelis came from to start with, I mean, BEFORE they took over Canaan the FIRST time. Rolling Eyes

It isn't right what they have done, nor what they are doing.

At least YOU admit they have nukes, which is more than they will admit, although everyone knows it. Disgusting.
 
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cswho



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
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 PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

read this in the NY Times this morning. I have to admit, it pushed my buttons.

Printer Friendly Format Sponsored By

July 19, 2006
Op-Ed Contributor
Israel Leaves the Scuds Behind
By ZEV CHAFETS

Tel Aviv

ON Sunday my 10-year-old son?s summer camp was shut down; it was judged to be too close to Haifa, too vulnerable to missile attack. Instead, he and his sister are at home in Tel Aviv, busying themselves with yard work.

On Monday, the Israeli Air Force discovered and destroyed a Hezbollah rocket capable of hitting our yard in Tel Aviv. There are said to be many more such rockets in the Hezbollah arsenal. So today, when I sent my son and his 9-year-old sister out to buy gardening gloves and a rake, I first briefed them on what to do in case of a missile attack.

Ah, memories. It seems like only yesterday that I was having a similar discussion with my elder son, then 9 years old. That was in 1991, during the Persian Gulf war. My parental briefing included instructions on how to put on a gas mask. Saddam Hussein had threatened to ?burn half of Israel? and we thought his Scuds might be armed with chemical warheads or worse.

This time around there are no gas masks (at least not yet; Hezbollah?s leader, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, has promised ?new surprises?). But Hezbollah?s conventional rockets are lethal enough. They have killed 13 Israeli civilians since the fighting began. In 1991, after almost a full month of trying, only one Israeli was hit and killed by an Iraqi Scud.

The Israeli government in 1991 was ordered by President George H. W. Bush to stay out of the fighting. Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir, a man of limited communications skills, complied without explaining his decision to the Israeli public. When Israelis realized they were unprotected, people panicked. Schools shut down, businesses closed and just about everyone fled to safety.

This reaction led Israel?s enemies to a simple conclusion: whatever the Israeli Army could accomplish on the battlefield could be neutralized by hitting the squeamish home front. Hezbollah (and the Palestinians and Syria) began laying in stocks of missiles.

Successive Israeli governments made the prevention of missile attacks a major goal. Israeli diplomacy, from the Oslo accords through the unceremonious Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon in 2000 and right up to the current frenzied efforts to stop the Iranian nuclear program, have been premised on the fragility of Israeli morale in the face of assault. Starting with the first gulf war, Israel went from being the deterrent power in the neighborhood to being the chronic frightened patsy.

At least that?s what Sheik Nasrallah thought when his men snatched two Israeli soldiers on the Lebanese border. He figured the new prime minister, Ehud Olmert, would meet almost any price to get the soldiers back peacefully.

Instead, Mr. Olmert attacked. He knew that retaliation would bring on the missiles and rockets, but he evidently thought it was worth the risk.

What Mr. Olmert didn?t know when he gave the order ? what the Israeli public itself didn?t know ? was that the rockets wouldn?t cause panic. Fear, yes. Caution, too, and some complaining (this is Israel, after all). But, amazingly, most people in even the most vulnerable areas have behaved with something like the sanguine good nature of the British during the Blitz.

What?s different this time? Leadership, in Jerusalem and in Washington.


For Israelis, fighting back made all the difference. We?ve taken Hezbollah?s best shot and we?re still standing. ?We will win,? Mr. Olmert told the Knesset on Monday, and this simple assertion became an instant headline and a rallying cry. Mr. Olmert?s confidence is based on military capacity, of course ? fully unleashed there is very little the Israeli Army can?t accomplish against Hezbollah (and beyond) ? and on his faith that George W. Bush will give him the time and the international support needed to finish off Hezbollah.

And this faith is well placed.

There is, of course, a certain poetic justice in having President George W. Bush help Israel restore the deterrent power President George H. W. Bush undermined in 1991. Unlike his father, this president doesn?t seem to regard Israel as a nuisance. On the contrary, he sees it as a friend and an ally in the fight against Islamic radicalism.

An Israeli victory in Lebanon wounds Hezbollah?s patrons, Syria and Iran, both of which threaten American troops and aspirations in Iraq. It establishes Mr. Olmert as a major figure as he tries to set Israel?s permanent borders in accordance with American policy. And, with any luck, it will make it possible next year for my children to stay in camp for the entire summer.

Zev Chafets is writing a book about Christian evangelicals, American Jews and Israel.


Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company

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sojourner



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 PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Which buttons did that story push, cindy? Confused
 
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